Aspect ratio Problem under Windows 7/Windows 10 Differences

Russ_Croucher

For several years I have been complaining that the image stabilization in videopad must have all the resolution of the inputs so that no loss of information will occur. Example, if you have a video of 720x480 with a bad aspect ratio you must have more bits going to the image stabilizer than the video produces. The aspect ratio on 720x480 would be better at 720x540 without loss of detail. 640x480 produces the same aspect ratio but has a loss of 80 bits from 720 down to 640.

I now have proof that the problem that occurs in videopad in Windows 7 different from Windows 10. Even though the header clearly describes the video to be 720x480 Windows 10 must have fixed a problem that Windows 7 had reported the wrong information to the user of the file. So under Windows 7 videopad produces a problem that is not apparent under Windows 10. However, videopad can do several things to alleviate this problem even though the problem is in Windows 7.

My procedure is to use Pinnacle 23 to use their FireWire to download videos to an AVI file under Windows 7 or 10. Then videopad is loaded to image stabilize the file with the latest version 10.96. Then the final procedure is just to use the temporary files from the image stabilization to run them through handbrake to produce the final MP4.

Here is a complete cloud directory of two raw FireWire AVI files and the image stabilize files in both Windows 7 and Windows 10. It shows that under Windows 10 everything is fine. But under Windows 7 several of the files were only image stabilized at 640x480(loss of 80 bits from 720 down the 640). One file was stabilized at 854x480.
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AuSetTxgq7JxqOFT5VfvcJbTP23xzw?e=7rUKaM

One interesting problem which I do not understand because all the settings under Windows 7 and Windows 10 are the same but the Windows 10 files are much larger than Windows 7. I chose the "larger file sizes" under both, "progressive" under both, and "HDV" for image stabilization under both. Maybe someone can help explain why Windows 10 uses larger files even though this is using the same version of videopad which is 10.96.

borate

Don't have and can't speak for W7, which debuted in 2009 and hasn't been supported since January of 2020, or why file sizes vary.

Using v10.96 in Windows 11 (and W10 would likely be the same)...

Imported dv4raw.avi; stabilized it (progressive/HDV); exported it as an mp4 at custom 720x480 or 720x540.

Seemed fine, with no need for Handbrake.

You might try W7 compatibility mode while in W10, but here those file sizes were comparable when testing a :30 snippet of your original AVI.

Russ_Croucher

Actually Microsoft stop supporting W7 in January 2020. But your product info says it supports Windows XP all the way through Windows 11. I actually prefer Windows 7 over Windows 10 because you can turn off the updates which you cannot do with Windows 10.

Windows 10 also no longer allows you to format FAT 32 on USB drives greater than 32 GB. So all my flash drives that are larger must be formatted under Windows 7. They did this to push their NTFS file system which Mac computers do not support fully. All the USB flash drive companies have a format called exFAT which chrome books do not support. So all flash drives that leave this place must be formatted FAT 32 to be compatible with all computers. But they have their own limitations like 4 GB file size. Since you cannot turn off updates with Windows 10, I have many copies of all my images as backups and if I go back too far as a lot of updates have to update on Windows 10. And I consider my windows 7 machines as work horses they are made to do a job that's it. Internet browsing and job maintenance is done with Windows 10

What's going on in the software is the code is asking the operating system what the format of the video is in under Windows 7 is reporting wrong when it looks at the header and gives the wrong answer. Windows 10 seems to have fix this problem. There are several utilities that report the video itself independent of the operating system.

The reason I use handbrake instead of videopad is because handbrake uses all 16 cores of my dual processor system. Videopad does not. I use videopad for many things but not for the final step which handbrake is much faster because it uses all the cores. Remember it's all about speed. I'm actually tickled that when I started this business several years ago image stabilization was taking 200% of the actual time because of the speed of my fastest processor now with my SSD's given me 3.5 GB/s I have got that down to 85% of real-time. But then again that's handed off to handbrake for the final step.

I was just trying to report the bug I do know I will be doing all my final FireWire processing with Windows 10 because of this bug. I will use Windows 7 more for the analog processing.

borate

Using a Windows 11 box, exported your Stabilized - dv4Win10.avi (2.67GB) with both Handbrake and VP 10.96 (64-bit)...

Handbrake settings were fast 720x480 mp4 @ 30 fps (peak) which resulted in 29.97 fps with deinterlace OFF (unacceptable quality when on). Size 2.67GB. Time: 3:10.

VP settings were 720x480 @45fps (Smart Max) which resulted in 29.97 fps. Size: 1.2GB. Time: 2:06.

Of course, YMMV.

Russ_Croucher

Clearly you jumped on my procedure on how I do things using handbrake and not concentrated on the bug I'm try to report. I have chosen to use handbrake because of the choice of using all 16 cores when using multiple CPUs. I tried your above concept only got 45% CPU usage under videopad but 95% under handbrake. I mainly chose handbrake because I never found a very good way to do de-interlacing on the videos that need de-interlacing. MiniDV and HDV do not need de-interlacing and makes the quality worse if you try to turn it on. Also handbrake is very nice because you can drag entire folder and it will convert it at the encoder level you desire. Videopad has "small", "medium", "default", and "extra-large" and custom. I don't want to deal with custom. I know the encoder level I need to be better than the recorded system that's what I use.

So I really wanted this thread to concentrate on the Windows 7 bug and does videopad no longer support Windows 7 or should be abandoned in its support list. It sounds like you tell me you will no longer support Windows 7 just because Microsoft has abandoned updates. This is something that us people that use the product actually like better because it is more stable. We don't want the latest greatest wonderful thing we want something that works every time use it.

borate

Can't speak for the company, or whether this is a VP issue. Perhaps a note to tech support referencing this thread is in order...

https://www.nch.com.au/support/supportcontact.html?software=VideoPad&support

Russ_Croucher

I will investigate your support link that's a good idea. I do find I seem to get better response by creating a thread. I never know if a bug report ever gets installed. I wish I could move everything to Windows 10 but I have my analog imaging cards are stuck it Windows 7 which is not a problem because most analog stuff was done 20 years ago when we were not even in XP. We were doing Windows 2000.

Clearly you can see from my procedure above that I am not married to any one particular product. I use the best solution to solve a problem in reasonable timeframe. I chose handbrake because it works so well with many processors and cores. I like the way VP handles most other operations. I never did get FireWire to work with VP. I really don't care because I have a good solution that works with pinnacle.

I try to stay with Windows 7 for my work machines to keep from getting updates anyway. So all my Windows 7 machines have updates turned off. I wish I could do that with Windows 10 but I can't. I regularly do image backups on everything so I can go back to a year ago if I need to.

I wish VP and image stabilization used more cores.

borate

Considering the above listed speed results, the core issue may not be that important. VP did better than Handbrake in several tests. But there are other issues, as you noted.

You are likely also aware that Windows updates can be delayed for up to five weeks (Win 11).

Russ_Croucher

Is there any way with VP to do H265 encoding? I do that when I go to phones and tablets. I know I choose my machines based on what it's going to use for. If I'm going to use it for VP primarily I choose less cores and brute speed. If I'm doing something like handbrake I choose dual processors of 8 cores to give me 16 cores total at maybe 75% CPU speed. With that many cores I can get handbrake to do about 200 fps at my rated encoding output level.

borate

H265 is available via the Default Quality / File size link in the export box.

But don't believe it supports accelerated graphics, so you may find it to be slow.

Russ_Croucher

I have never gotten it to work I only get H264 and MPEG4. Do I have to install something or turn on something? This is also Windows 7 and Windows 10. I think that was another reason I chose to handbrake time years ago.

borate

Using mp4, the choice should be there...

Russ_Croucher

I just checked this morning with 10.96 and I only get H264 and MPEG4 with those 2 options. Maybe you can see what I'm doing wrong. It must be something you must install on the driver something. Let me know. Because I would like to compare the 2. Between handbrake and VP.

borate

It's there in 10.96 and prior releases, using the mp4 format - but not with AVI export.

Russ_Croucher

aha!! I guess I didn't realize I specify lossless export limited me to what I can use. When I say normal export I see H265. Thanks for the heads up.